Kill It, Skin It, Wear It
Running Time: 65 minutes (approx)Merrilees Parker likes fur. "I admit I like fur. The way it looks, how it feels and how it makes me feel." But can she kill it, skin it and still wear it? In her day job as a chef, Merrilees knows exactly where her food comes from. Now she wants to find out if it's possible to source ethical fur like we source ethical food. When is Kill It, Skin It, Wear It next on TV?
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Kill It, Skin It, Wear It is a Documentary programme.
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Comments
Quite frankly, there is no ethical way of killing a non-human, any more than there is to kill a human. Life is life and the taking of it is murder. It really doesn't matter how Merrilees Parker 'feels'. To wear a dead animal about her body will never make her look good. Since she is obviously perfectly good-looking as she is, there is no need for her to take to killing in order for her to feel better. So, please, Ms Parker, think about others first and keep your fresh beauty unsullied.
animals were not put on this earth to be made into products, anyone who thinks it's ok to kill animals for fashion and thinks that they are treated humananly is kidding themsleves, beautiful people don't wear fur, beautiful animals do.
I havn't seen this sad programme. But killing animals for clothing is primitive - just evil in the Western world. Sad it needs comment.
Does Ms Parker ever consider reincarnation?
Julie Roxburgh's comment sums it up!
This woman hasn't got a clue about ethics. She wears fur anyway (surely she realises that it's a dead animal??) and lists calf's liver as one of her favourite meals.
This programme is a joke. And this is yet another example of an ignorant person being put in a position where they can potentially influence people because they're *famous*.
Julie you are very confused. Taking human life in our society is nurder. A necessary law to maintain the morals and sustainability of our human social structure. Taking of life in the rest of the animal kingdom (of which we are very much a part of), is definately NOT murder. It happens the whole time birth life and death (frequently vioent death) are part of the continuous process of existence. You and I wouldn't be here if it were not so.
Animals die, animals are killed by other animals, it happens, inescapable. Ethics and morals are a human concept, and dont exist in the rest of the animal kingdom. If you dont want to kill another animal , thats fine, and perfectly respectable, but dont try and change the colour of the whole spectrum of nature according to your own one sided perspectives and emotions. Emotions dont happen in nature.
If the wearing of fur is considered immoral, what are we to wear? equally immoral (in fact even more immporal) is the destruction of vast ecosystems through our cultivation of crops, (cotton etc), and oil use (synthetic clothing). The wiping out of whole ecosystems just so that we humans can eat and dress ourselves in the huge numbers that our population has become due to our crass greed.
Weep for your furry animals by all means, but weep also for the unseen mass slaughter we humans perpetrate on the rest of the animal kingdom for the survival of our huge population. But don't criticise those that do kill other animals. You and I would not be here without them. Even if our population was controlled to sustainable levels, we would still have to kill for food and clothing. It is what all life does, but it is not murder. Murder applies only to the killing of our own species.
Oh, and just to put the record straight. Ms. Parker does not wear a dead aniaml around her body, she wears the cured pelt of a dead animal. Emotive and ignorant words again I'm afraid just to create an effect but with empty meaning. Do you talk of wearing sheep all over you when you wear a woolen sweater?
Now then Dongal you are being very preachy today! And so protective of an industry that makes vast sums of money from the pain and suffering of living creatures. Why might that be?
Well Dingal, are we talking murder or 'nurder' as you prefer to call it?
What Ms Roxburgh is saying is as obvious to any none fur industry profiteer as your own poor and inaccurate arguments against her stance. The only confusion is in your pedantic ranting.
Dougal, I think you'll find that many DO weep for the animals forced out of their habitats, starved and isolated due to human greed.
Masses of people campaign against this day in and day out. If not for the good of other species, for the good of our own.
I can in fact criticise those who kill animals to eat and dress themselves, because were these animals never raised for these purposes we would have enough land to feed and dress ourselves through the cultivation of crops.
I won't give you a lecture here about the capabilities of certain creatures but I will say that, actually Dougal, emotions DO occur in nature.
Possibly what sets us apart as distinctly human is morality. We have the ability to question what we do and have been doing for thousands of years. Is this not an important aspect of your life Dougal?
And finally, Dougal, I'd just like to point out that the cured pelt of a dead animal...Is still a dead animal.
Thankyou.
I think its outrageous that this programme will be allowed. Seeing what animals go through on fur farms is awful. Over 50 million killed for their fur in the most disgusting ways, half skinned while they are still alive! are we gonna see the true facts of fur farms,how can anyone say they love fur when animals are tortured to death!
Fur wearers selfishly ignore the suffering of the animals killed to unnecessarily clothe them.
Be it for financial gain or for insecurity management, this is simply who they are at this moment in time.
I do not say that they are incapable of change, I am simply describing what I believe they are doing today.
I myself changed, against all the odds, from being a vociferous defender of meat eating who cared more about my own personal comfort, to become a vegetarian one day in 1995 and then to become vegan a couple of years later.
Had you tried to change me in 1994 you may have wished you hadn't ;)!
So, let us have a tiny peek at the reality of the 'acquisition' of the skins of fur bearing animals:
o Trapped animals are often clubbed to death or left to die and forced to attempt to gnaw off their own trapped limbs to avoid starving to death.
o 'Farmed' animals are often anally electrocuted to avoid damaging their pelts or gassed or clubbed to death.
o Dogs in China can be seen to be hung by a back leg in markets and SKINNED ALIVE whilst they experience significant fear and pain.
A lot of this fur, along with fur from cats which are also seriously badly treated, is sold throughout Europe as fake fur and used to trim gloves and hoods and make furry toys. Do you have an alsatian living with you? Can you imagine if it was your dog? Or your cat?
Don't believe me? Just watch the footage!
On top of all that it takes 40+ fox to make 1 full length coat, 60+ mink etc etc - check the net for more details. Hopefully the program will touch upon these truths.
So that's 40+ living creatures killed to make someone feel more secure about themselves.
I say - go to the gym! Learn a new skill! See a psychotherapist! Deal with your insecurity! Do not use it to cause pain and suffering to others.
Yes fur is beautiful but the cost to the animals involved is unacceptable!
Imagine planet Earth was taken over by aliens who decided that human skin was gorgeous and made them feel good to wear it. Would you offer yours?
Well would you?
Now I know that the animals involved cannot reason as well as you or I however they can and do experience fear and pain and this is my take on what I might think if I was caught in a trap :
Caught In A Trap
I gnaw and gnaw it's really sore
I guess that that's because it's raw
I've got to do it now you see
The clubbing will begin at three
They want my coat it's really nice
It keeps me warm but what a price
I'd give it up if I could find
The zipper, clip or velcro bind
Instead I've got to lose my leg
And walk on three legs and a peg
The worst part is I've got to bite
My leg off now or die tonight
©Bernie Laprade
Now I do not know the outcome of the program but I hope that like me, the lady in question, the program creators and the majority of viewers, decide that causing distress, pain and suffering to an animal - for any reason - especially this one - is a step too far.
Amen Julie. People astound me that they think they can speak of wanting world peace and ending violence when they still support neanderthol practices such as wearing fur and eating meat. How can a person be against violence, and yet support the unnecessary taking of lives every day?
This woman is completely disgusting, her attitude and approach on the advertisement for this program made me angry and sick! She has an incredible compassion deficiency, and I hope karma hits her three fold and sees her reincarnated as one of the minks she wishes to murder and skin.
The human race drops to a new low point.
Sorry Caroline - Having enough land for us all if we did not raise animals for food and crops is a total urban myth. The figures dont stack up. It completly disregards the complexities and cycles of land regeneration and sustainability of cropland. We live in a total network of life, where animals AND land AND plants are necessary for the continued survival of each other. Each using each other in a continual cycle of life and death. Your argument would indeed be true for a human population of 2-3 billion, but not the 6 billion we have now.
Re: emotions, I agree, no lectures, but be VERY carefull about interpreting animal behaviour against human enotions and perceptions. What we SEE or think is not reality, - what we experience IS reality for us, but not for others.
Yes, I've spent my life questioning everything, because as you say, it's what we do, but by looking so hard for answers everywhere, sometimes we can miss the reality of being part of the this wondrous web of life and death.
And finally Caroline - semantics - I think you will find that a pelt COMES from a dead animal, but by no stretch of the imagination can you say it IS a dead animal. Is a tooth a dead animal too?
I disagree with you Dougal, I think you'll find, if you had done your research (as I have), that the figures DO in fact stack up. The fact that every 1lb of meat you eat is equivalent to driving 40 miles in an SUV was probably summed up by Albert Einstein when he said that the best way forward for the human race is vegetarianism.
Maybe you forgot to add to your figures the grain animals eat, they eat huge amounts of grain...While producing only a small amount of meat. It seems clear to me that meat eating is grossly inefficient. If the land used to grow grain for animals and the land used for grazing them was put to better use, we could in fact sustain our huge population (not that I agree that we should). In fact, the amount of land used for animal feeds has been stated at 10 times that needed for human consumption. An overexageration maybe, but the point is clear. The UN put the effect of meat and it's by-products as in the top 2-3 causes of global warming. I could go on, of course. But onto the next point.
Here I will use your own argument against you, "the animal kingdom (of which we are very much a part of)". So we are very much a part of this animal kingdom, truthfully, we are animals ourselves, and if we experience emotions...Emotions are existing in the animal world. It is only due to our arrogance as a species that we refuse to acknowledge emotion and intelligence in other species, animals mourn, recognise each other, feel happiness etc just as we do. The emotions may be different but are emotions nonetheless. I agree than perception can be deceiving, but this theory has strong scientific evidence. In the same way that emotions have been researched in humans, emotions have been researched in animals.
By blindly enjoying the reality of this "wondrous world of life and death" you are missing the most wondrous thing of all. All you are doing is living and dying. I am thankful that I have been given the opportunity to step back, and realise that not everything I do is without consequence.
A tooth is no more a dead animal than the finger nails I clipped this morning are me. But if a person chopped me in two and took one half to Blackpool and the other to Paris, I'd say that half of my dead body was in both Paris and the other half in Blackpool. So, when you said, " I think you will find that a pelt COMES from a dead animal, but by no stretch of the imagination can you say it IS a dead animal." You were wrong Dougal, because I would actually say, "The skin of the dead animal is on the woman, the rest of the animal is on a pile of rotting carcasses in China.
This life is indeed wondrous Dougal, and I'm overjoyed that I can enjoy it without the weight of suffering and decay on my shoulders. Maybe I should thank you, for carrying that burden for me.
Don't be daft Steven. "Nurder"? you know very well it was a typo error. Don't belittle yourself.
Fur industry? never mentioned it. No interest in it. Just a passion for biology, ethology and psychology.
Pedantic rantist? Is that what you call someone who's opinions differ from your own. Shame on you. Our comments have been invited here.
To everyone here - be honest with yourselves now. How many of you are expressing opinions based on extensive research? How many of you are expressing opinions based on heresay, (what you have read or seen in the media), and how many of you are just expressing opinion based on your personal emotions.
I apologise in advance for any typos Stevn, but I'm sure you will work out what I mean
It is widely understood that the fur industry is peopled by two types, the profiteers and the insecure.
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A psychologist friend of mine once told me that fur is mainly worn by those who suffer from insecurity in the hope that onlookers will perceive them as better in some way than they perceive themselves, thus giving them the 'feel-good' energy they so desperately need.
He was obviously not speaking of peoples such as the Inuit.
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However, he said that wearing fur will never solve the problem. Once the coat is removed the insecurity returns and these days it is much more likely that people in the street will look at the wearer in disgust rather than in admiration anyway.
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Wannabe fur wearers would be better advised to spend their money engaging someone who could help them deal with their perceived shortcomings on a permanent basis and enable them to arrive at a place where they do not feel the need to have living creatures killed to make them feel better.
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I suppose, given Ms Parker's credentials as a chef, we ought to ask ourselves why this program is being created.
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Is it a promotional vehicle for Ms Parker?
Or is it a promotional vehicle for the fur industry?
Is it a pre-promotional vehicle for the launch of a new 'ethical' fur label by Ms Parker in collusion with the fur industry?
Or is it a genuine attempt by someone to enlighten the public and to decrease the suffering within the fur industry?
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As I haven't seen the program or the trailer for it yet, I can only give Ms Parker and the program makers the benefit of the doubt at this time, however I do hope that the program will shine a true and non stage-managed light on all aspects of this gruesome trade including coverage of the horrific abuse of dogs and cats by the fur profiteers.
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It does seem though that if Ms Parker believes that the animals killed for her diners are 'ethical food' that she may well bring that same warped sense of reality to the program, so perhaps I shouldn't hope for too much!
It will be interesting to see if there are any animals that Ms Parker sees as off-limits in her pursuit of personal 'happiness' and enrichment.
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If the show does turn out to be a sham vehicle to promote the fur trade and/or Ms Parker herself then I must agree with jackie lambert who says below : "I think its outrageous that this programme will be allowed", however everybody should see what really goes on in the fur trade and if this program does not show it then I urge all to let their fingers do the searching.
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I sometimes wonder what those who eat animals and advocate use of their skins for clothing would do if they found themselves having to live with a tribe of cannibals!
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Would they eat humans because it was accepted practise among their new found buddies?
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Would they refuse to eat human flesh because they had been prevented by law from doing it in their previous life?
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I wonder if we had no law against it, just how many people in the UK would have humans 'farmed' to eat?
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And would size 12 ladies ever wear the torso of the size 14 they had just eaten for lunch
......... as a body warmer?
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It can never be moral or ethical or acceptable to kill an animal for some human to wear it, no matter how it is done. There is no "kind" or humane way to do it!
I agree Caroline, Dougal, Dongal or Dingle was totally wrong when saying that animal fur was not a dead animal... If I skinned Dougal would he not be dead & I'm sure his family would wanna bury the skin I'd ripped from his body too!!!
Fur! Fur! Fur!
Get with the program Dougie!
You say you have no interest in the fur industry yet this page is all about a documentary exposing it!!
So what exactly is it that you do then?
Do you spend your days looking for people like Caroline on pages like this to argue with?
Or do you in fact work within the fur industry and spend your days attempting to minimise the damage caused to it by good caring people expressing their disgust on pages such as this by taking them off topic?
As I said previously you seem to be very protective of an industry that makes vast sums of money from the pain and suffering of living creatures.
Why exactly is that?
Actually Steven, Caroline is the only one here who has shown any inteligence and "Thinking" behind what she is saying. I may not agree with her views, but she is certainly someone to engage in respectful debate. The rest of you sound as though your all using the same brain cell. and instead of thinking for itself, it's just mindlesly spouting rhetoric and propogander that it has heard or seen somewhere else.
Have you seen this program in the advance of the rest of us? Something I don't know hmmm? The program information above (which is the only thing I was respoding too here) says nothing about being a documentary to expose the fur industry. It may be. it may not be, we wont know till it is aired.
As for suggesting I work for the fur industry, that's just plain dumb, I'm sorry, but it is. If you don't agree with Steven, you work for the fur industry. Is that it? How does THAT work.
The only reason I am so passionate about this is that I've spent several decades studying the natural world in the raw, and now see this world being totally screwed up by so called do gooders that just havent even bothered to go out there and experience for themselves what nature REALLY offers us.
And I am also toatally pissed off by organisations such as PETA who completely hoodwink innocent, good, and caring people with propagander claptrap so that they can make millions of dollars, complete with tax breaks that you and I would die for, so that they can live in comfort, and satisfy their own twisted agendas under the disguise of morality. When you look closely at their finances and their own animal welfare activities, morality and respect for life just dont figure in their ethos.
Why cant you guys just debate, instead of resorting to wild accusations and personal assumptions about people you know nothing about.
Caroline I respect, but Steven - you dont know who I am from Adam. Why make wild guesses.
Panda If I was dead, you're welcome to my skin, hope you get some use out of it. My family certainly wouldn't care if it was buried or not, why would you assume otherwise?. But trust me, you wouldn't be wearing me, I would be too heavy for you and it would be mighty uncomfortable. No, all you would be wearing would be my skin.
Dougal, thankyou for your concern, but allow me to clarify, I am a Philosophy student at Nottingham university and I have decided to specialise in 3 different areas: women's rights, animal rights and the environment.
I have done extensive research into a lot of the things that you have a "passion" for.
Hope this extra information adds to your online experience.
This programme looks horrifying! How anyone could make a programme showing people killing an animal and wearing the fur is Seriosuly Wrong! Not just showing it on T.V but just doing it anyway is Majorly Wrong. Even he advert is disturbing!
I have NEVER worn fur and i NEVER will!
(Plus, im vegetarian so i dont eat meat either)
FUR IS AWSOME. The texture, the look I can't believe people are even against it!!!
It takes up to 50 dumb animals to make a fur coat but only one dumb c**t to wear one!
kiling animals for fur should be band all over the world , you do not need fur to keep u warm now,as you have jackets.
i hope this programe is seen by alot of people and something good happens out of it.
this women is so fuckin dum as she does not no shit bot what goes on in the world
Hope if SHE'S ever murdered the murderer uses the excuse of "I'm going to do it humanly and I know how/where you have lived".
can't wait till ms parkers relatives die!!, they're getting skinned and draped over a goat.
Just finished watching the documentary, and as as like most blokes who wouldnt wear fur i've never gave fur farming half a minutes taught, but i have to say well done to Merrilees a very brave decision to make it and you handled the whole subject fairly and weren't afraid to speak your mind and share your own REAL opinions! If your job as a celeb chef fails you definatly have a job as documentry film maker. I hope I see more of Merrilees on TV! Not only because i have a crush on her!!
i have just finished watching the documentary kill it, skin it, wear it.
i must say a am ashamed to be a human, to watch an other human kill another creature humane or not. Where is it writen that we as humans have the right to take another;s life, animal or human, yet we inprison humans who kill other harmless humans, whats the difference in a human killing a harmless creature. We were all made equal and must be all treated equally and with the same respect, and if anyone is for the killing of a harmless animal then u are no more or less a monster, and will one day pay for you actions. I belive that designers sould stop designing garments with fur in mind, and there for there will be no demand for it, just think about it. after to night i truely feel i am a different person, iv seen thinks iv never seen and leant thinks i never knew. i believe that after seeing a live animal being skined alive, and lie suffering on the ground STILL ALIVE.for what, i ask you WHY? why would anyone want to wear fur knowing it came from an animal that suffered for your pleasure of be fashionable. if any human could watch that and still enjoy wearing fur. you are not a human you a monster. till the day i die i will never forget the eyes of that inersent creature that was skined alive, with fear in it eyes, and looking like it was asking it skiner what did i do to diserve this? you have taking my skin and left me here to die a slow and painful death, all for a perfectly undameged coat.!!!!!!!
Killing can never be good. God said thou shalt not kill. Any feeling human would not stand by when a fellow species was being exploited. Exploitation for money is sick and I hope all you workers in this industry can sleep at night as you'll never rest in hell!
we can all perfectly live with out killing anything, we can wear perfectly good clothing which is not made from any life animal, has anyone heared of that thing called cotton, and so on . and wot about salad no wounder so many people are so fat these days, i think we would be perfectly fine with out killing anything.
People should not be preaching on here. You have your opinions, fine, but keep them to yourself. If people want to wear fur let them, if they don't then that's fine. Why do people who don't wear fur have a problem with someone who does? You're not the one wearing it are you?
i saw just a glimpse of the program last night and was horrified...the part i saw was of the fox being skinned alive!!!!! how could we live in such a cruel world..... fur coats should be banned products and people who wear them should be showing this footage before purchasing the coats!!!!
At the point of watching this i had to turn the programme off, to be honest i had seen enough... it is bad enough that they keep these animals caged...
From the start it was obvious that Ms Parker was, vainly, trying to ease her conscience about wearing fur. Well poor her!! In this day and age there is o excuse for wearing fur other than vanity. Shallow vain excuse for a human being.
Having read a few of the comments below I do not want to get into some academic debate (yes, I have a science MSc)I just want to say that the image and the eyes of that fox horrified me and will haunt me for a long time to come. We all share this world together, sure humans have intelligence (arguable, I know) we have no right to inflict this sort of pain/suffering on any other species, what goes around comes around... I'm just thankful that at least that fox will be dead by now but how many are going through it today?......
The Chinese and American fur farming methods were incredibly horrific to witness. Whether you care or not about fur, the motivating factor in the industry is money, as usual. And at the consumer end, it's about vanity. Two of the main reasons why mankind is digging it's own grave faster than it thinks.
I watched part of the programme last night but had to turn it off, it is awfull and un nessersary cruelty to inocent animals just to have a fasion piece what has the world come to although it has been going on for many years surely it should be banned. I am skared for life afer seeing the clip in china were they basically torture the animal kicking and beating to then result in being skinned alive i couldnt believe my eyes.
Didn't anyone notice that all the really horrific footage was over 10 years old? There was no recent footage, probably because don't have any!
I think that kind of torture is rare now in the fur industry.
i was absolutley disgused on how some of these people hurt and torture animals for fur its horric! i couldnt stop crying those poor creatures i do hope someone does soemthing about this and bans it for good whoever wears fur should be ashamed of themselves
i am absolutely horrified with what i saw on this program and has made me want to kill every last person involed in the torture of these animals. i am going to use the remainder of my life to hunt down the bastards who do this. please please please can you email me the address of those fur farms that do this so i can rectifiy the death of all these poor animals. im not a psyco if it sounds like it im just going to help these animals from now on. thank you for making this known to me that this happens like this. ( i had no idea!. )
As supposedly 'intelligent' life forms, surely it is our duty to minimise pain and suffering wherever we can because we are lucky enough to be in a position of power to do so. How can anyone condone cruelty in any shape or form is beyond me. I wish more people had healthier doses of empathy and the world would be a far better place to live in. Animals experience both fear and pain and the idea that anything could suffer agony and torture needlessly before it is killed is utterly disgusting. Anyone who is untouched by the suffering of another sentient creature needs to have good look inside themselves. Such insensitivity really won't contribute in any positive way to society and our world is a far scarier and impoverished place for it. Anyone who says 'let people wear fur if they want to' under the circumstances is either ignorant, stupid or just plain scary.
alex pithers, i hope you're joking...
I thought it was disgusting.
I though the Merrilees was stupid to think an animal could ever live happily in a cage. And how can anyone think fur is okay when it's completely pointless.
We have fake fur now and it's no need.
The footage may be old but it still goes on and if you think it's not like that no more then stop trying to justify fur. More than 90% of the UK is against fur so you will not be very popular.
I think anyone who wears fur should have their own skin ripped off.
I am comepletely against animal testing, eating and etc. Including fur.
This programme was ridiculous and was one sided.
FUR WILL NEVER BE OKAY AND IT IS BAD THAT'S WHY IT'S BEEN BANNED IN UK TO PRODUCE IT.
i was horrified im only a child and me and my friend have wrote to the priminister we totally agree with alex pithers !!!! STOP KILLING ANIMALS FOR THE FUR its bloody stupid plz may i also have the adress to the fur farm so i can write to them ,thank you we had know idea of what was going on :( thanx
The footage shown in the programme was taken by a Swiss guy. The full footage is on Peta's website. I don't recommend that you watch it but it show's the reality of the situation in full. Maybe 'Nat Said' should watch it before ordering us not to air opinions on a message board.
How the hell is trapping a beaver and letting it drown to death for 20 minutes more acceptable than other means???!!
Myself and my partner watched those poor animals get treated in that horrific way last night on channel 2. When that fox got skined alive and it turned and looked directly at us with its brown eyes, still with eyelashes my partner Emily began to cry, myself, a 6'2" builder had to turn away....That image will haunt me for ever.
Who are these sick, to far up their own backsides people who would think nothing of ending the life of an animal in such a macabre way purely to wear its coat. there are sick and starving people in this world, there are 1000's of worthwild charities all of which could do miracles with the money that would buy one of these degenerative fur loving idiots just ONE of their fashion items.
As for the chinese, they treat this world and everything in it as if it were their own. Perhaps they wouldnt mind being stripped of their flesh 'ALIVE' (dont forget), then grabbed by their feet, lifted up high and then swung down violently so their head would smash into the ground.
Such a turning point when fox hunting(with dogs) was banned, and then we see this on tv.
No blame to the BBC for showing it, im sure there was many a tear shed there to, there were no tears shed by the cold hearted, brainless w----rs who carried out those killings.
Dear NAT, have read your comments and am just wondering if you had any chinese in you, cos your comments certainly sound in favour of the killing of those animals.
"if people want to wear fur coats why not let them" you say.
Unfortunatly you seem to have lost the plot along the way, for someone wearing a fur coat is approving to the slaughter of those animals, FOR WHICH WE ARE ALL, RESPONSIBLE. . . . . . . . . . . . !
Not very objective when confronted by the anti-fur Glover was she now, took everything he said as being gospel, not once did she ask when & where the footage was shot, for all we know the "chinese" footage was of two "paid" yokels killing a fox or two that had been in their henhouse.... & then on came the waterworks, very emotive... not very professional was it now? Aweee their so cute n cuddley
personally im more ticked at the giant corporations that graze their "prime beef" & lay waste to farming land as well as destroy animal habitats so folk can have their fix of caffeine or palm oil.... now thats summit to go complain about now as another species departs the planet forever
Yo Nat!
You say...
"People should not be preaching on here. You have your opinions, fine, but keep them to yourself."
Sounds like you're preaching too eh?
This IS a forum for people to say how they feel about the situation.
What did you think it was? Cook-along-with-Merrilees?
And as for...
"Didn't anyone notice that all the really horrific footage was over 10 years old?"
I missed the calendar on the wall Nat. Perhaps I was too busy throwing up?
Are you a cage manufacturer or something? Not everyone uses the most up to date kit you know!
And you say ...
"There was no recent footage, probably because don't have any!"
What makes you such an expert at ageing film Nat? Or do you think you have inside information through your own dealings with the industry?
And ..
"I think that kind of torture is rare now in the fur industry."
As I understand it Mr Glover of Respect For Animals showed film taken within the past year and Ms Merilees didn't seem like someone who would be hoodwinked! Or are you saying that everyone is an imbecile bar you?
You sound to me like another dongle speaking up for the killers.
And finally you say ...
"Why do people who don't wear fur have a problem with someone who does? You're not the one wearing it are you?"
Well the animals who were wearing it and to whom it belongs can't speak up for themselves can they nat?
I could go on and on at you here ad nauseum but it seems to me that you are incapable of understanding the suffering of these creatures, or just do not care about them, and incapable of understanding that some people do feel for other living creatures and are prepared to stand up for them so I guess I would be wasting my time.
Maybe one day Nat!
For as long as I can remember I have always loved fur.I grew up in a society where the majority of the public never thought twice about where it might have come from.The finished item was all that mattered...fur was very much a symbol of wealth and glamour.Over the years as I became more aware of the cruelty involved in the fur trade I felt very glad that it was no longer fashionable and I thought the powerful anti fur advertising supported by many catwalk models was brilliant.This programme however has more than reinforced my original views.It's all too easy to forget about this subject.Like others commenting here I will not forget the images shown and I would like the Governments in all countries to act and do something now!! I can't agree with some of the comments on here though that are directed at Ms Parker...horrific and brutal verbal attacks in themselves!
I have no problem with this programme:
1. I believe it is wrong to condemn a whole industry just because of some bad practice. If that were the case everyone would be a vegetarian e.g. do you not recall the news last christmas of guys being arrested in Norfolk for kicking live turkeys around as footballs (until they died)?
2. It is worth noting that the bad practice (which I disagree with) was shot in china - not known for its human rights let alone animal rights.
Also, putting the fur industry into perspective:
1. Did you know that leather does not come from the same cattle that provide the majority of the beef we eat. Leather cattle after providing leather and suede generally end up as bone meal or in pet food (not disimilar to the fate of most mink bodies).
2. The male calves of dairy cattle which provide us with milk, butter and cheese are either killed instantly after birth (and used as bonemeal) or sent to Holland to be reared in dark cages as veal.
3. Hundreds of thousands of sheep and particularly male lambs die to keep the wool industry alive. In fact all male lambs are castrated without anasthetic, many die from shock or loss of blood.
4. To keep alive the chicken industry (whether battery of free range), male chicks that hatch are immeidately killed at birth in a giant cement mixer that grinds the bodies for bonemeal/fertiliser.
The point of the above is that the same problems generally arise from the use/creation of all the other animal by products we use in society from feathers in a duvet to the snakskins used in a belt or handbag. PETA which is the main campaigner against fur is against all of the above plus fishing (in particular if the fish once caught are thrown back as they are pscyhologically damaged - check out its website if you do not believe me), equally PETA is against keeping pets. If you subscribe to anti fur you should subscribe to all of the above, although I doubt many do. It is too easy for people to be anti fur because it is seen as glamarous, expensive i.e. the purusit of wealthy individuals, which makes it an easy target similarly the animals have been portrayed as cute and fluffy - no one would care if it was rats that were being killed. The organisations have not got to the point whereby the feel able to challenge the keeping of pets but that is an ultimate goal.
I appreicate that this may be a bit of an overused argument, but when you have genocide taking place in parts of the world and tens of millions of people dying of AIDs, which would not die if money was sent to them to pay for drugs to keep them alive but instead funds are redirected to pay to campaign for the closure of a fur farm in Mongolia is rather selfish. I understand that all campaigns have to be supported but in perspective - people say they would die for causes like this? what are they on??? Things like the enivronment if not dealt with are far more catastophic than fur farming - if the environment is as bad as people say then there'll be no animals to trap for fur (or people to wear it!).
Fur as a resource will always be there, the more you try and ban it the more elusive it becomes (that's the nature of fashion).
I do believe however that there should be more accountability to the farms and I don't see why standards could not be raised to the level whereby people only start to buy organic fur (I understand some people will never agree) but surely, if you are someone who doesn't buy in to all the above mentioned envionmental matters then I suspect you should have no problems with this approach. This should hopefully help put an end to the bad fur farms.
If the acitivists want better treatment this is probably a better way to achieve this as if not the situation will continue as is, which will be the result if the cmpaign for abolition continues.
Although remember if abolition does occur what will be the next target...
Steve - applauding your comments! As for Nat I just think you are on here for the sake of an argument and to stoke things up a bit - I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of rising to you - I do truely pity you though if thats how you really feel.
I watched the show last night after reading some of the blogs and i have to say it was more horrific than i had imagined it to be. I will never and have never worn fur because i think its looks cheap and tacky and the main reason is because it is unnecessasry to kill an animal to wear fur - there is certainly no need to inflict horrific suffering and such pain and agony to another living creature. If you eat meat, wear leather and suede etc you must ensure that the animals have been treated with the respect both in life and at slaughter. To me you are a very shallow and selfish person if you continue to wear fur knowing that such terrible things are inflicted upon these animals whether you are a animal lover or not you would really have to be a very unworthy person in my eyes to wear it. I prefer to give my time to people who care about the world and the animals that make our world such a wonderful and fascinating place. I have today wrote to Animals Asia which is a fabulous charity who are trying to stop bear farming, cat and dog eating in China as they too are killed in similar circumstances as the little fox we all saw on the programme and i have also wrote to the Chinese Embassy in London to ask what they are doing to stop such barbaric practices and i would suggest that anyone who feels strongly enough do the same. I certainly can't get that image out of my head when the little fox looked up after having been skinned alive (i can't even begin to imagine the pain) and blinked whilst looking at the camera as to say what have i done to deserve this and why so perhaps all you people who think that eating meat and wearing fur is one and same think long and hard about that question - yes the animals are all killed and for some people that is simply not ok but for others as long as the animal is killed humanely that should be a given but no-one on this earth deserves to treat any creature in such appaling ways just to look good - its tragic that we have such people walking this planet and i wonder why they deserve to be here if they have such callous regard
Purrs to Ms Parker for deciding to scrap her fur and to refuse to purchase any more and to the program makers for at least shining a light on part of this horrifically cruel industry.
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However, huge grrs to Ms Parker for her complete lack of sympathy and understanding with regard to the drowned beaver and the gassed mink!
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Most worrying of all was the underlying idea being promoted that if fur were accurately labelled with regard to 'source' and 'welfare' standard, that Ms Parker could consider it to be sufficiently 'ethically produced' for her to buy and wear!
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Ms Parker, along with those who profit from this killing trade, would like us to believe that they have a right to abuse any living creature not currently protected by law. As can be seen from her day job, Ms Parker already has a career based on the death of animals killed at her request and is getting away with it very nicely thank you!
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Unfortunately, the law and people's consciences are the only tools currently available to peacefully change the situation with regard to the use of animals as food. The continued growth in the availabilty of vegetarian and vegan options in restaurants and supermarkets has ensured a steady rise in the number of vegetarians and vegans within the UK and beyond, however, whilst people are continuously being frightened and controlled with stories of impending doom such as from the credit crunch and terrorists in their streets, it is difficult to see how the collective human consciousness will find the space to grow to consider others more.
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Without this type of growth we may well have to wait until the availability of land, food and water for animal rearing as foodstuff reaches crisis point with regard to the amount of people crying out to be fed before any action is taken by Governments and for killing animals to eat to finally become a thing of the past.
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However, I digress!
We must not allow these people to delude us that it is in any way possible to 'ethically' produce an item of clothing from the skin of furry animals. It is not!
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Never forget that, apart from those with no other choice, anyone who believes that it is ok to trap a beaver underwater, wait for it to drown, then skin it to make a garment is either profitting from it, seriously delusional, desperately insecure or sadly completely out of touch with one of the finest characteristics of a human being - compassion.
I was totally horrified with what I saw regarding this program. It sickens me to think some people still don't care and will continue to wear fur. No animal should be consumed as a fashion accessory. The program has made me more than ever determined to help these animals any way possible. If the image of an animal being skinned alive won't make people realise this is wrong, God only knows what will. And lets face it, there is no humane way to kill something for its fur.
Yo Rumpole!
I'd like to reply in rumpy style if I may.
1. Well done for waking some up to the some of the nasty practises within the chicken, sheep, lamb, dairy, veal and the leather industries. Let them know the nightmare of being a pig, a fish, a lobster and a rabbit too. Go on!
2. Can't see why it's "wrong to condemn a whole industry just because of some bad practice" though!
The idea that an industry which encages, beats, traps, clubs, shoots, gases, terrifies, anally elctrocutes, drowns and skins alive might have some "good practise" is surely a joke eh?
You are having a laugh aren't you?
3.And why say that those who are anti-fur can only be so if they are anti everything else? Whilst I agree it would be nice if they were, it's at least a start and a good one at that!
4.As for hypocritical behaviour why do UK meat eaters eat pigs rather than dogs? Could it be that one is protected by law? I don't hear you condemning them. Or are you a pig eater too?
5. I would like to reassure you Rumpy that many would care if it were rats being killed, not as many I grant you but you are simply wrong!
6. You seem excessively keen to spend other peoples money too!
How do you get to telling us that we should spend our hard earned cash supporting your favourite cause as opposed to our own?
Have you petitioned the government to act to stop the genocide and offered them a large cut of your wages to do it?
Have you phoned Big Pharma and asked them why they continue to profit from drugs which they could afford to give away in order to give life and hope to the AIDS sufferers? Or have you set up a direct debit to the Bank of Africa to buy drugs for the local charity?
Selfish! Don't make me laugh! Are you not more selfish than those you attempt to describe? You talk like a speciest who selfishly wants everyone to give their money to assist his own species only.
7. Rumpole the Environmentalist eh? Are you going to live a vegan lifestyle then?
World meat production has quadrupled in the past 50 years and livestock now outnumber people by more than 3 to 1.
The livestock population is expanding at a faster rate than the human population.
With hundreds of millions of people already not obtaining enough food to meet their basic needs and billions of people lacking access to safe water supplies, it is imperative that we find sustainable methods of food production that do not further degrade planetary health.
So how much do you really care about the environment and the starving people of the planet? What are you going to do about it?
http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsF08q.htm gives info on the video of animal abuse produced in China. For information on the 30 year history of this business, see http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsC7.htm
after watching the program - it actually comes out in favour of those like myself who oppose this barbaric `industry` - the image of the poor fox or dog still alive blinking its eyes after having its skin ripped off had me in tears and hugging my dog as the thought of anyone doing that to her would make me want to rip the skin from the person who would do such an evil thing and see how they suffer!
How can this killing (or skinning alive) of animals for their fur be justified in this day and age? - I would personally like to round up all of the people in the industry and see them all shot dead to end it once and for all! Evil bastards the lot of them
Thanks Caroline for that information, I wasn't intending that you divulge any info about yourself, but I appreciate your candour, and therefore feel that in honesty I should reciprocate.
I am a zoologist, and have travelled extensively throughout the world, and have been fortunate enough to meet and talk to enough indigenous people to understand that you can indeed treat the world in balance and with respect, And yet still kill other creatures with compassion and respect to the creature that gives up its life. This is what makes us human, and it is why we can stand out from the rest of the animal kingdom that kill with no sense of care or compassion for their victim. If a carnivore catches one of us, it will usually start eating us once the fight has gone out of us, not caring wether we are dead , or still alive. To see our closest cousins, chimpanzees, literally tearing a living and screaming monkey in two to kill it, is a sobering sight, as is the sight of ignorant people treating an animal with cruelty and calousness as in the (very ancient) chinese film footage that the anti fur lobby still insist on pullimg out whenever they want to make a point.
Mark Glover, in the documentary said "We see this kind of thing everyday". If this is the case it would have been more usefull if he had shown Merrilee some more recent and meaningfull footage. The fur industry has come on in leaps and bounds in tightening up animal welfare issues since that footsge was shot more than ten years ago.
And here's some news for you. You are not the only ones on the moral high ground. There are very few fur wearers who are not also horrified and disgusted by seeing that footage, but they also know that most of the fur industry is not like that, and is very well regulated.
Has anyone checked out the source of that chinese film footage? No?...Do it.
All Industries have those who cut corners for profit and exhibit unsavoury practices. The food industry is another extreme example. But it is not sensible to shut down a whole industry due to the malpractice of a few miscreants. If we follow that course, there would be no food industry, fur industry, fishing industry or clothing industry.
To pick up on what Jessica said, Can anyone here justify the Arral Sea ecological catastrophy, and the death misery and destruction it has caused to whole sections of wildlife, just for the sake of the cotton industry? or the hideous abuse of child labour throughout the world again for the cotton industry?
In New Zealand, the possum is causing another ecological disaster. Introduced by man, it has no predators, and is wiping out the natural fauna and flora. It has to be controlled (killed). It also just happens to have one of the warmest and most practical fur on the planet. Are you saying that this disastrous pest should not be controlled. and if it is, then its useful fur should be allowed to just rot away with the rest of the carcass?
It is a shame Ms Parker didn't investigate this source of ethical fur.
I think rats have been mentioned before here. It is a very unwise person who allows their home to be overun with rats. What do you do? Kill Them? or chase them next door so that it becomes someone else's problem.
No, for all species to survive and co-exist, killing is a necessary part of the whole, and will always continue to be so . When we stop killing, we will be no more.
I suspect that Ms. Parkers act at the end of the show was just put on for effect since it was a channel 4 documentary. If not, then it is a very sad and heineous act, to wantonly destroy something that is usefull and functional to others. Did it not occur to her that she was destroying something that still had a lot of usefuull life left in it to someone less fortunate than herself? Unfortunately it is just another example of how out of touch with the real world we have become here in the UK, and how the feelimgs of many people here are merely reflections of their own selfishness in not wanting THEIR feelings hurt, and has little to do with animal welfare. She perpetrated an act of selfishness rather than compassion for others. It didn't help the dead animals, future animals or any humans, it merely satisfied her own conscience.
Just a few other brief points, then I'll get back to you Caroline.
Contrary to the anti-fur brigades misconceptions, there are very few fur wearers who wear fur out of vanity
Dog and cat fur are not commonly used by the fur industry, but by the the maufacturers of more mainstream clothing such as collars, cuffs and hoods on parkers etc.
Most fur that came out of China in the past would not make the grade for fur designers and therefore is unlikely to have be included in the colour matched batches of furs we saw at auction in the documentary.
Why is it that animal rights and anti-fur lobbyists do not seem to be able to conduct logical argument and debate, but in 95% (figuratively) of cases quickly resort to insult, sarcasm and general playground taunting. If you want to be taken seriously than act thoughtfully and seriously.
Finally Caroline, I wish you luck in your studying. Work hard, they are all subjects that are going to need a lot of good people in the coming years. Women's rights throughout the world are especially important. Until we get our own affairs in order, there is no hope for any of us, let alone the animal world we share this planet with.
Yes, fur is wrong, and it shouldn't happen, but it will always be around regardless of what we say. PETA can't stop it so i doubt some few people on here are going to make a difference, no offence.
When i saw the minks being 'killed' in the program i felt it was the most humane way and i quite surprised how it was done. But all other ways like beating them to death etc is so wrong i can't tell you - those people need killing themselves.
As fur will always be around i think all fur farms should do it the way they did with the minks. There is no reason why they can't use that method as the animals wouldn't even know - which is the best thing.
I like animals, always have, and i find it upsetting that people think i condone cruelty, i really don't. I do think though that if people want to wear fur, leather, eat meat etc then we shouldn't treat them any differently to anyone else. Yes, you may see a person with fur on and hate it, but that's them and not you, and you should just be proud that you are making a difference by not doing these things yourself. If we all aimed to make people not wear fur, eat meat etc it would be very unhealthy for us because you would never succeed as everyone's different and not everyone has the same opinions on these issues as you.
And i have seen the full footage of the fur skinning on PETA and i was disgusted, but it is old footage. I do still doubt that there is still the same amount of farms using methods like that as they're probably afraid of being caught. BUT, if they still do then they have no right to be on this earth.
I hope people understand where i am coming from and not be offended by me. I totally respect you people for being anti-fur etc, i really do, and you should be proud of the difference you make :)
And i am not chinese by the way, lol.
It seems that actually Dougal, we may be on the same side (of the scale at least). I'm not against the use of animals by human beings, for food or clothes.
But, I advocate respect for the animals and for the environment and I believe that those two go hand in hand.
I am a vegetarian but should I have a chicken in my garden, I would not feel remorse for eating the eggs and eventually ending it's life so that it could end up on the plates of my family. This I feel is perfectly natural, the circle of life, the food chain.
I didn't watch the programme as I knew I'd only find it upsetting and manipulative. I'd rather do my own research and come to my own conclusions, so my comments will end here.
I watched the video and was appalled but believe that this is very much the minority than the rule. The industry will always survive no matter how many protests (the more protest I expect the more exclusive it will become). The best way to acheive a balance would be to fully regulate all farms which should be run on as much of an organic basis as possible and try in the end to move to more humane management of the animals. I appreciate the cost implications but that is the price people should be prepared to pay.
If the EU declared all fur had to meet these high standards i.e. the sourcing of fur was changed at point of sale, the designers which are largely based in the EU would have no choice but to conform, the bad farms would close down and better practice would result.
Going around shouting and throwing paint achieves very little. People care more about animal welfare than banning something - because it can become more of a campaign. If the proposals are more gradual and realistic people are more receiptive e.g. the uptake of organic meat has occured since the organic campaign started in earnest this year, which is good - there has not been a corresponding rise in the numbers of vegetarians - people are happier with small steps than taking the plunge.
I expect a lot of people still will want a ban in spite of what I say above but I believe ultimately following this route could lead to a ban in the future as it could be adopted admidst ever tighter controls which make the industy unecononic (which drives the whole industry) - throwing paint does not, that person will just buy another coat and just be more careful next time. A ban will ultimately be the one small step at the end of the campaign.
But I expect some people will not want to hear this. They will say people are selling out is what's happening if this is supported. But Rome wasn't built on a day. The diehards will always exist and often use intimidation to get their point across. This can never be condoned. Any campaign that uses violence becomes an easy target for labelling as a terrorist. I do not support violence in any campaign doing so loses the moral high ground and udnermines hard work, surely if the reasoning is enough it will win in the end.
Also if conditions are kept to as close to nature as possible is it better for an animal to have lived for however short a time (and be killed instantly without pain or awareness of what was happening) or for that animal to never have existed at all?
Or, if applied to humans (assuming we get conditons as good as possible) would you prefer people to live until their prime say 25 y/o and then die instantly withou pain and not aware of their impending death or would you prefer never having lived for those 25 years?
I think living 25 years in cruelty etc would be intolerable but if conditions could be made such that this was not the case then surely having lived and died is better than never having lived at all?
A good working example of the above is the ban on battery farms which are in the process of being phased out so eggs can be sourced more naturally(thankfully). If this ban was announced tomorrow and people didn't have any eggs and the free range eggs available sky rocketed in price there would be understandable uproar so the ban needs to be introduced over time with tighter controls etc which will have limited impact on the daily life of people - in fact they won't even know it is happening until its happened.
Having read some other comments on here - good to see that there are other reasonable people not quite as hot headed/emotional as some!
I would like to see more programmes like kill it, skin it, wear it on TV as most people are not aware of the cruelty involved. I would like Merrilees Parker to have mentioned the fact that although we do not have mink farms in this country anymore, a major amount of the fur skinned in China ends up in our stores as fur trim on collars, etc. and not just in expensive stores. Merrilees did not point out that this also involves the skinning of live cats and dogs who are actually still alive even after they have been skinned. I just cannot understand how a man or woman can possibly think wearing a fur will complete them and how much better it looks on the animal. I think wearing fur is total sacrilige, I don't know how to spell that but I'm sure you know what I mean. Also, I would like to have seen Ms. Parker show the horrific treatment of these animals even prior to skinning being crowded in baskets with broken limbs and thrown down from very high trucks, what is wrong with the human race? Just imagine yourself locked in a cage where you can hardly move for your whole life, animals feel pain and have intelligence what is wrong with these people. These animals live with no dignity whatsoever and die with no dignity, tortured and alone in pain, wake up before it's too late!!!
lost for words.knew it was gonna be disturbing viewing but no idea how bad. obviously never have or never will own fur.love animals of all shapes n sizes. not alot i can do as one person,just hope and pray that these sick bastards who skin defenceless animals alive will burn and rot in hell and somehow feel some of the agonising pain and suffering they have caused these creatures.what goes around comes around eventually and thats true then these toturous bastards are fucked!!!
I havent had a night sleep since i saw the images of that fox i have bin any item of clothing i had with any real fur on it and i am a shame that humans are the only animal that will kill out of any other reason apart from being in danger or hungry we can skin a fox alive and the next day we talk about what victoria beckam or some other idiot is wearing i cant belive we manage to put a man in the moon!
This will be my last post here, cos none of you seem to stop and think things through. Come on guys - think it through. That footage was not taken at a fur farm, but in a chinese market, it has nothing to do with the fur trade. The Scandinavian mink farm shows how it is really done. Why are you all so ready to leap to the worst scenario?
EVERY civilised person finds that footage abhorent, and the guys who were doing the work, (Quite probably paid for by the film maker) should have been tracked down and arrested. And I say again - it is an OLD film............Pah! It's just not worth arguing with you lot. You've got eyes to see, ears to hear, and most importantly, a brain to think with for christ's sake USE them to look at the real world. Don't just react to things, be proactive in your thinking.....I'm off.
I totally agree with you Dougal. That kind of fur skinning is totally unacceptable, and everyone would agree. But you are right Dougal, most, if all PROPER fur farms will use the method they did with the minks as they earn more than enough money to keep them running to a high and humane standard. But if there are any people out there that are still doing the cruel skinning alive methods then, like i said before, they shouldn't be on this earth.
To Nat
You'll probably never read this , but I just have to say: The Chinese pet and wild animal fur trade is very much alive and thriving and gaining even more ground in the year 2008 going on 2009! Yes, in the 21st century! Google it, there's more than enough fresh evidence.
We really need to do something about this because it is getting out of hand. We can't sit on the fence and go: 'Oh well, if they want to wear fur, then let them.'
Here's a great quote to illustrate my point: 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and women] to do nothing.' -Edmund Burke
And for those who need to open their eyes, here is but one of the many videos out there showing the true depravity of humans regarding animal life.
Beware, not for sensitive viewers.
People who wear fur have obviously not seen with their own two eyes how these animals are treated.
I urge you to open your eyes and watch actual footage of the cruel fur trade. But beware, it is sickening and not for sensitive viewers. (The hyperlink doesn't seem to be working so please copy and paste into your browser.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueBWi8BL0PQ